I used to know Johan when he lived in Hamburg (he lived here for almost three years.). We sometimes went out together and we had some wild nights together in the Lunacy bar in St. Pauli. I hooked up with him again recently, when he was here for meeting and partying with some friends. He had asked me to do an interview for the official Tiamat homepage, and the only thing he asked from me was that I wouldn't talk that much about music or Tiamat. He decided for a bar close to Fischmarkt, his favourite bar Christiansen's, and he of course ordered his favourite drink, Pernod and orange-juice, and stated to waitress that he want it to be mixed 50/50, and even told her would pay extra for this. Johan is a party animal, but before I met him for the first time in another Hamburg bar, I had expected him to be quite introvert and not much for parties at all… I started our conversation by telling him that.
-Yeah, I know… There was always this view of me being an introvert shy deep thinking weirdo. I could never really live up to that. I'm definitely not shy… I wanna enjoy life as well as well as anyone, and I'm pretty good at it, I think. You know, some people, especially in the gothic scene, were shocked when they got to know that I'm a football fan… You know, you play gothic, that's serious... You shouldn't sink to that level…blah… Fuck, I love football, it's more important to me than gothic music.
Still into St. Pauli?
-Of course, the position in the league doesn't change anything. I relate to them, but my main team is still Hammarby from Stockholm. In Germany it's St. Pauli, though. I think I have a favourite team in every European country by now, ha ha
Who's your favourite football player?
-Thierry Henry, without a doubt! I've been interested in football since I was a very young kid and no one impressed me as much as him. I also like that he seems to be a very sympathetic and sportsman-like person. Apart from that, Zlatan Ibrahimovic makes me proud of being Swedish, he's amazing and great fun to look at… He makes stuff I haven't seen before in football.
I know you told me not to ask questions about Tiamat, but…
-Ha ha… Did I say that?
Well yeah, you did…
-I guess I meant that there are so many questions that we were asked so many times before, and I wanted this interview to be different… I'm sorry, I appreciate you're doing this and I don't wanna complicate stuff, you know.
You also said you wanted this to be the mother of all Tiamat interviews…
-Yeah, and we have… What? Three hours before Headbangers opens? Just roll my friend!
How are you, nice to have you back in Hamburg.
-Oh yes, it's always great to be here… Hamburg is by far my favourite town in Europe! I love the atmosphere and there's always something to do. I really miss living here, might move back one day, it's beautiful…
Apart from the weather…
-I've got no problems with that. I'm a fisherman, I can take some wind and rain.
What do you like so much with Hamburg?
-You mean apart from Christiansen's (the bar we're in, who repeatedly were given awards for being the best bar in the world, by Playboy magazine and others)? Well… I know you guys…, and the Headbangers... Really feel home there! There are great places to go out, and I like the industrial harbour… The fish-market… I don't know… It's a great mixture of Scandinavian and German, I guess… I guess I like north-Germany, quite simply… "A Tiamat tour is like Space Mountain in Disneyland… A roller coaster in the dark" You just got back from a tour with support bands Pain, Sirenia & Theatre of Tragedy, how was that?
-It was great! We had a lot of fun and we got along very good with everybody. It felt like we were a big family and I actually didn't want the tour to come to an end. You know, I made friends on that tour, and then you go separate ways and you don't know when you see each other next time… That's hard.
You also played some very big festivals in huge sports halls with Nightwish & Omph and others…
-Yeah, and that was great too! Very good and relaxed atmosphere! The people of Nightwish are very nice! I really like them! And Apoptygma Bezerk and the others… Everything ran very smooth. And those festivals were extremely successful… Would have been great if that billing went on a longer run!
You seemed a bit misplaced on that bill, though?
-Yeah, but we're always misplaced. That's ok, we can live with that… Ha ha…
In one interview you did that night in Oberhausen you said something about being the antidote to the dreamy bands that played that night…
-You're a well researched young man…
But do you think the people want that… Don't they just wanna escape for a while, and isn't your way of telling the reality just a bit too brutal for them?
-I know what you're saying… Damn, I know exactly what you're saying… You know we used to be called a "dreamy" band some years ago… But it just isn't us… I'm not putting down the other bands, they're all cool, but many of their fans use them as an escape… I guess that's ok, it's just not what we are like. Young girls who are unemployed, failed school, don't know about the future… Sometimes from a bad background… They change their name into… Vixen Lilith or Mistress Dracul or something and hang out on internet chatrooms where they shape a new fake personality, and they colour their hair black and dress in middle age clothes and disappear into their dreamworld where those bands are forming the soundtrack. We're the band that tells you how it really is. Your father is still an alcoholic, you still need to go to school tomorrow, the year is 2005 and not 1786, and you don't need an umbrella against the sun because neither the sun, nor garlic will kill you. Damn, it's good for you even. Guess we're a gothic band who preaches sunlight… But the ones you're talking about… They are your audience too…
-Maybe… Some of them are for sure… But what do you want me to do? Lie to you?
I know you have toured with Pain before, how did you like Peter's new way of presenting the band, with the female musicians and the new look?
-I liked them very much when we toured with them some years ago and I like them even more now, but not because of who's playing what, but because they have yet another record out which is great and they have more good songs to choose from. We've always enjoyed touring with Peter, and we know that he will always bring some interesting musicians on the road, to say the least… Actually, touring with Peter is an adventure… But it fits us like a glove. We're equally chaotic as Peter and a Tiamat tour is like Space Mountain in Disneyland… A roller-coaster in the dark.
Any chance you'll be working with Peter on a side project or something?
-I think we discussed this every time we met. Every time we get drunk together, we form bands and make plans… I don't know how many bands we have together by now, ha ha… But hopefully, one day we can do something together, I respect him very much as a musician and as a producer.
"We're the cockroaches that will survive the nuclear-winter of the music industry!"
I heard only positive things about your shows. It seems you're gaining some respect as a live performing act, while previously you were more known to be an "album" band…
-Well, yeah… I don't think we've ever sounded this good. Did you see any of the shows?
No, but I had friends who went to Hannover, and also to Berlin and Oberhausen…
-It's interesting cause we have a lot to take from, and this time we came up with a good mixture of old and new and heavy and atmospheric… And we keep to this punk attitude… That we have nothing to lose, playing every show like if it was our last. We're quite full of ourselves, we really have to love ourselves to do a good show. And we don't have problems to be confident enough to deliver. You know, we've been playing live for such a long time now, and we went through a lot of different stages. Some years ago we were known for our psychedelic light show… We had weird projections, black light, body painting, soap-bubble machines, fire-breathing… All that stuff… God knows how much money we spent on all that… But some people criticised us for hiding ourselves behind all that trickery, and to some extent I think the criticism was true. We listened to our fans when they didn't like that we used backing tapes and samples and stuff, and I'm really thankful for their opinions cause we became a much better live band when we stepped out of the shadow and also started to perform every single note live. We will always confuse, though, and no one will ever know if we're the band for a moshpit or only the soundtrack of potsmokers. We like that. This band was always about unpredictability and confusion!
No more Pink Floyd influenced lightshows and pyrotechnics??
-…I don't know about the future, but… if you wanna see bombs go off, you have a better chance by going to your local train station or shopping mall, than if you come to a Tiamat concert.
And you don't even wear makeup anylonger…
-I don't need to, I'm a natural beauty, ha ha.
So your visual appearance is nowadays more concentrated around your personae and you all look more comfortable on stage these days… How did you achieve this?
-We like what we do, and we excuse ourselves to no one! We have outlived so many bands… We're still here, valid and rocking like hell! You know, we're the cockroaches that will survive the nuclear winter of the music industry.
"We know we have a lot more to give. And a lot more to take!"
And you have been working out a lot lately?
-I try to stay in shape and I'm comfortable with myself. We're getting older so we have to work a bit harder to achieve things. But that's a good thing. Me and Anders are going to the gym regularly. When you're in a band and you're our age, you need to fight for it. Either you just get on with the fighting or you give up and become a parody of yourself. We don't give up that easily. We know we have a lot more to give. And a lot more to take!
I have to ask you about your new lead guitarist… My friend, who saw you in Oberhausen and in Berlin, said he was by far the best guitarist he had ever seen… (His name is Fredrik Akeson and he is also playing in the Swedish band Talisman!).
-Yeah, I agree. Can you believe what a great feeling it is to know that you have the world's best guitar-player next to you on stage… A lot of bands can say it, but we mean it. He's unbelievable and top of the world!
How do you still find inspiration to new songs after all those years?
-That was never a problem… Look at this world… How can someone not want to write songs about it?? Tsunamis, braindead worldleaders… Religious wars… And on a more personal level… Broken relationships, addiction… Self destruction… Sex, drugs, alcohol… You know… And of course all your questions about your personal beliefs. All that stuff which are clichés in a way, but it's always gonna be what really matters, because that's life and no one can escape that, unless you kill yourself, but that's also in our songs…
Any new music that influenced you?
-I don't keep up with the scene very much. But now and then I just happen to sway by something I really like. Some days ago I was at the release party of Napalm Death and I was truly blown away by their show. I don't know how that influences what you're doing yourself but with such a strong impression, it must have some impact on what I'm gonna do in the future! They rule!
They're not a very new band, though…
-No, but I just rediscovered them… I saw them first time in 1988, I know their history…
And what about other sources… Books, films… Art?
-I just watched the movie "Pollock" and got very much into it. I related very much to him and he's one of my favourite artists… The movie is great, and because I know his work I was really awaiting the moment when he would find his true painting style, and when he did I had goose-bums all over!
I read on the internet that you said you're more interested in art than in music…
-That's probably true, and I get so happy when I can talk about it. I go to art exhibitions a lot more often than I go to concerts. I love it, and to be honest I don't have many friends that share this interest with me… Doesn't matter really, though... Sometimes I met people who said they were interested in art, but then they start talking about Caravaggio, Goya and Bosch and stuff… In best case, ha ha… Sometimes even Rembrandt and Renoir and stuff and I'm like, oh my God… Well, that's all great, but it's not what I'm into and I guess I'm always gonna feel lonely here… Really, it doesn't matter. I'm fine keeping this to myself.
So you're more into popart?
-No, not at all… I've seen a lot of Warhol and Lichtenstein, but I prefer the time in between the early modern artists of the French and the Spanish genres, and the time of Popart… You know, Americans such as Jasper Johns, Rauschenberg, Pollock and especially Cy Twombly. All the forerunners of Popart, except maybe Edward Hopper… Credit to him for being the first to bring the coca-cola logo into fine art, ha ha..., but I was never into the more photorealistic stuff.
"Our music is not a photo-realistic painting of dead kings with Rembrandt-arses, but much rather like a wall of rusty crimson Pollock splatter."
I have to confess I don't know much about art, but do you consider the work of Andy Warhol as being art?
-Of course it is, there's absolutely no doubt about that. Every one that ever got remembered for his art, was so because it was groundbreaking and he had something new to show. Van Gogh had his unique brush strokes, Monet had his brilliant lighting techniques, Mondrian is there as the creator of De Stijl and taking cubism further when Picasso became an old fart, Matisse for his flat way of painting etc... When Warhol mixed art with consumption and especially with mass-production… You know, what he did at exactly the right time… He proved his genius… And when he said these words about the fifteen minutes… You know, that's long ago, and he proved to be right… This is exactly how it is today. He knew it. He foresaw stupidity like Big Brother and shit like that. I respect him a lot as an artist but he's not my favourite one. I like Lichtenstein more, maybe because he didn't have any ambitions. He painted true cartoon without wanting to say anything more. He was true popart! He was what Warhol always wanted to be, but was too pretentious to ever become.
Which is your favourite painting?
-A huge Miro in only black and white that I've only seen twice on an exhibition in Dortmund. It's this black bleeding moon on a grey canvas… Everybody who saw it was very struck by it, but I realize how stupid it is by me to try to explain the sensation… Then I really like Munch's Madonnas, and I've seen a few of them, as well as Van Gogh's Sunflowers… It's a very special feeling to stand in front of some of those very well-known paintings and having a moment of your own with them… When I was in MoMa in New York, I was watching the sunflowers, and I was completely alone for almost ten minutes… In that very moment there are millions of people buying it as a cheap poster with a silly frame in Ikea… And I'm there with the real thing! Then I of course like the oil paintings of Carl Barks, especially "This dollar saved my life at Whitehorse"… There's also a Rauschenberg that I saw as a kid in the modern museum in Stockholm when I was around nine years old. It's a big blackboard with numbers and signs on. It is the first art that left an impression on me, together with his goat with the tyre around his belly. The goat is still there, I saw it last year again, though I remembered it differently, but the blackboard is gone.
How do you think your interest in art influences your music?
-It influences my way of thinking… You know, I like Nick Cave very much… He's all about setting a mood and telling something… He's communicating on a higher level. That's the way I see the difference between abstract art and the classics… The difference between Nick Cave and Bryan Adams… Our music is not a photo-realistic painting of dead kings with Rembrandt arses, but much rather like a wall of Pollock splatter. We like to leave something for the listener to fill in. That's why it's communication. Nick Cave communicates to me, as do Miro, but Bryan Adams is just telling his story without being interested in what I as a listener could add to that. If we don't allow the listener some imagery on his own, we'd better stop making music, I think.
How did you get interested in art and what is it that you like with it?
-I've been interested since I was a kid, because my father took me to museums. He's very interested in classical art, but sometimes we went by some more modern stuff that I got attracted to as a kid. I don't know why I'm into abstract art… I can't tell… I just love it and I love to visit exhibitions. I had a girlfriend once who told me that I never look as happy as when I see a painting I like, she said I really come to life then, and I believe her!
"We're not here to sell records. We're doing this to become immortal!"
Some people say your development has been too hard to follow, that your ways were sometimes too strange…
-Well, why does it always have to be so simple?
But you really went to extremes sometimes, didn't you?
-Have you read the poem "The Atom Children" by Giger?
No…
-Simply it says that whenever a minority becomes a majority they also decide what is normal. We're in minority now, but as soon as we've outlived everybody else, our acts will appear to have been totally normal.
So you don't feel a responsibility towards your fans?
-Everything that is honest is art. We have a responsibility to be honest to ourselves and to our fans and to everybody else! We need to follow our instincts & express our subconscious into the conscious. That's the only way we can sleep cosily at night.
And it seems like more and more people start to accept this from you… When you started to drift out of the metal scene you were criticised of being commercial, but now you seem to gain more respect for what you do…
-Yeah, because it was never what you would call "commercial"… We're not here to sell records. We're doing this to become immortal!
As far as I know you don't have a record deal at the moment… Your long time collaboration with Century Media has ended…
-I don't know… We might continue with Century, they have been very good to us! Very tolerant and also they know us better than any other label, so they know how to promote us. I wouldn't mind resigning, but of course there's more to it than that, and I don't know what's gonna happen…
"I don't want money, I want free time."
A lot of bands in your situation – having a strong following and an expiring recording deal – have chosen to release their albums by themselves, also by the help of internet… Is that something you are considering?
-Not at all, we're too lazy and uninterested in that. I know a lot of bands who do that and they are telling me how much more money you can earn. But I don't want money, I want free time. Sloth is my favourite sin and I wouldn't sell it for any money in the world. I'm so happy someone else is doing the boring part of selling our music, because releasing your albums on your own means a lot of more work, and I don't want to work and I don't want more responsibilities.
You said you sacrificed a lot of when you decided to be a fulltime musician…
-Well, you know… A big part of me is just longing for a steady family life. I want to become a father one day... I wanna live in a nice house in a nice neighbourhood with cute kids and barbeque-parties. But higher forces decided differently for me… But honestly, the day I find the right one I want to keep to her for the rest of my life!!!
Are you bitter?
-Do I sound bitter now? God knows I hate to be bitter… That's when I excuse myself...
No need to…
-Ehm… How should I say this… It's easy to meet a lot of pretty girls if you're in a rock-band, you know, but it's equally as hard to find someone to have and to hold, which really is the only thing that matters. But I don't think I'm bitter, cause I never blamed anybody else.
But at least all this end up being good songs?
-I think so... That's my hope. Don't know if it's interesting for other people to hear about my ramblings, but yeah, it's of course a huge inspiration-source for me.
Do you do any drugs today?
-That's some question…
You write quite openly about it in your songs so I thought I could ask…
-Honestly I have to say that I've been pretty much living this rock'n'roll life for a very long time now. Addiction is something I think about daily. I've been to clinics for my problems. I'm addicted to life and everything that feels good, and unfortunately all these things kill you. I'm equally addicted to... well... having a good time. I have this thing, cause I'm sometimes afraid of myself being too self-destructive… Every morning when I wake up I tell myself: "Johan, do whatever you like today, but don't start with Heroin." I've been repeating that to myself every morning for almost ten years now, since I got out of heavy cocaine abuse.
Do you have a girlfriend at the moment?
-No, I don't…
Why is the devil so important to you?
-Since Christianity formed the Catholic Church some hundred years ago the world became a worse place to live in. For centuries we're filling ourselves with guilt over things we were programmed to be. I think, that if this planet shall prevail, we first need to get rid of Christianity, and the Catholic Church especially!
"I hate flying. I don't belong in heaven."
And how do you do that?
-I'm doing my bit. Definitely.
So would you call yourself a Satanist?
-It's not important what I call myself. I am Johan, musician and songwriter, with my own personal beliefs.
That you want to force upon others through your songs…
-I say what I think and some will like it, some won't.
So where will you be buried?
-That's of no importance. When I'm gone my corpse belongs to my family and they can do whatever they like with it. I'll be somewhere else, smiling hopefully!
When you released Prey there was this quote from you going around the press, about how you turned your crucifixes around before getting on a flight…
-I hate flying. I don't belong in heaven. Though I have thousands of flights behind me I still feel uncomfortable among the clouds. But I manage of course, I'm too lazy to take the train.
How do you manage?
-Come on, what do you think? Pernod, whiskey… Valium sometimes… Sometimes everything at once…
How interested are you in the occult, and the occult scene?
-Phew… That's a good question… I have personal views on every subject, I guess… But that's so wide… I've got no need to affiliate myself with others whatsoever. Whatever my beliefs, I still think there are way too many pretentious esoterics with childish plastic vampire teeth, performing some little girly rituals to appear interesting… I think you need a life on this side first, to be able to look into the other side. You don't achieve that by silly plastic masquerade fangs… And all that stuff, you know…
Even though you might be walking the left hand path, you're still socially aware, and you have songs like Vote For Love & Gaia in your setlist… How does that confirm with the egocentric ideas of satanism?
-I don't think it is egocentric to follow your true will and instincts, because I believe that really deep in us all there is an urge to help people that are suffering. All this self-centered egoism and hate and rage against other people is something that has been created later, partly by our harsh society, but if we really go to the core of ourselves, we want to help, and we do care.
"You can't sweat, nor bleed, on the net."
Your last tour started the 26th of December last year, the day of the tsunami. How did that affect your performances?
-That was strange, we got very little news about it during the tour, and at the time I had a girlfriend who was in India, and I was very scared… Luckily I got her on the phone and luckily she and her mother was ok, they weren't close to the coast. But it was a weird situation and we could see that the audience was affected too. Every night we close our concert with Gaia, you know, we've been doing that for years… We like to end the evening with a positive song, and in that song the last line I'm singing for the night is, “when nature calls we all shall drown”…
That's positive…
-It is a positive song and that was loaded with so much energy and it was very intense every night.
Have you done anything to help the tsunami victims?
-No, not really, we put links on our homepage…
Would you save the life of a Christian?
-Of course I would… And then I would tell him one or two things, ha ha…
If there's a Christian and a Muslim dying, and you could only help one…
-That sounds like that old second world war movie with Meryl Streep where she has to chose between her kids… Ofcourse I can't answer that… Damn…
Do you plan to work more actively to help change things? Maybe play some charity concerts?
-Actually, many years ago we decided that we would never ever mix the band with politics and social issues and at the time we turned down a few charity concerts, but since then so much changed that I have re-evaluated this. If we're asked to take part of a charity concert for a good cause, then we might be there. I'd like to do a lot more, but honestly I don't know where, or how, to start.
Pretty much every other band in the scene has a strong presence on the net, but you're equally mysterious throughout the net as in real life…
-I think we're trying to change that! But Tiamat is about oxygen and human body fluids… we're a rock band, you know! This is all new to us, we used to be punks, you know, we really grew up with The Clash and Sex Pistols… And like these bands, I think Tiamat is about the harsh reality we all face every day, not about a dreamworld where you can pretend to be something else. You can't sweat, nor bleed, on the net. But saying that, the net is pretty cool for many things, and I don't mind getting to know new friends that way… When used at its best, it can be very punk too!
How do you like to read all the things that are said about you as a person on the net?
-God, I don't read that… I'm not that much in love with myself that I sit around and do google searches on my own name… I belong to another, more nature loving, genereation… ha ha… I like to fish, god damn it…
Are you against internet generally? I mean, couldn't it be good for research and help you out a lot in your work?
-Yeah, well… As I said… Of course, it's great for getting hold of some information in a quick way, and I have used internet since the early days, and it has helped me a lot over the years. But the moment you see internet as something more than a modern library, you're really swimming in deep water. As I said, I'm not a very social person, I don't like to write emails and sms and I don't like to talk on the phone. If anything, I prefer human contact, or no contact at all, but I'm really getting better at this…
Who are your influences? Who do you look up to?
-That's a hard question to answer… You know, you get influenced by everything around you… As a musician, you can't help getting influenced by what they play on radio… My favourite musicians stay pretty much the same, but everything I hear will affect me somehow… But who do I look up to? Certainly not many musicians, they mostly write music… I don't know… Michael Moore… Stephen Hawkins… Jimmy Carter… Roger Waters… Larry Hagman… Thierry Henry… Michael Schumacher after he donated ten million dollars to the tsunami relief fund. People who did something good… Who used their position to make life easier for others and who are good-hearted people. You know… Bono… Bob Geldof… George Michael…
"I rather have success than a bookcase filled with stupid statuettes…"
And talking about celebrities… You were often nominated for prices and I know you have met many famous people, but I know you had problems with the awards… Or is this also only a rumour?
-As we would care about that, ha ha… Well, we were getting a lot of nominations for "Wildhoney" and on a small Swedish Award that used to be presented by MTV and Headbanger's Ball's Vannessa Warwick, we had the most nominations of all the bands and you could read in the Swedish newspapers that we were the masters and all that… So, I was supposed to meet the organiser of the Award and together we would do an interview for' Swedish ZTV… But I was out drinking the night before with the guys of Entombed and God knows when or where I woke up… I fucked it up… Then the guy called our manager and asked him if we at least would show up for the Award, and our manager – who can be pretty harsh – said, Nope… They'll be on a world tour with Black Sabbath on that date. The day after the Award I called our distributor and asked how it went… "Well, you were nominated in almost every category but didn't win one single one.", was the answer… You know, that's how it is in this fucking business. Only by promising that you will attend the fucking show, and asslicking the motherfucking promotor, you stand a better chance of getting honoured. Fuck honour anyway… None of the bands that would beat us are here today, and we're still pulling a lot of people across Europe. No shame in that really, rather have success than a bookcase filled with stupid statuettes… I know I sound bitter now but I mean it, who remembers Mary Beats Jane? Or Misery Loves Co.? Wildhoney really deserved some fake gold on wood panel!!! Even objectively!!! But as it didn't give them shit I don't give a fuck either!
What are your nearest plans? Any side projects? I know you were just involved in the game "Vampire the masquerade – Bloodlines".
-It was just our record company who got one of our songs ("Cain") to be in that game… We had nothing to do with it and I don't know what it's about and I'm not interested in games anyway.
We went out of the bar to walk the few hundred meters to Headbangers Ballroom. It was typical Hamburg weather but we were both warm and in a good mood. When we entered a half-full Headbangers, Johan was greeted by the personnel, with hugs and free drinks, and they played early Tiamat songs (the sleeping beauty) to salute him and to see how he would react. I asked him then, as my last question for the evening, how it feels to be treated in such a special way, as a celebrity…
"I'm Swedish, every reason for a free drink is as good as any, really, but now if you excuse me…"
Johan disappeared into the mass of black-dressed people, and I thought about how different his person is to his music. If there would be a soundtrack to this person, it would probably still be the first Tiamat record “Sumerian Cry”. Chaotic, mysterious, dark, and fiery as purgatory.
Facts on Tiamat:
Tiamat have sold more than one million albums worldwide.
Tiamat has headlined Europe’s biggest metal festival ever – the Dynamo in Holland’s Eindhoven - playing in front of 100.000 people with Korn an Marilyn Manson playing before them.
In the nineties they were the most excessively touring Swedish band.
They have toured with such bands as Black Sabbath, Type O Negative, Paradise Lost, Motörhead and more
Tiamat have been nominated for two Swedish Grammies and loads of other awards, but always went home empty-handed.
